♪ ♪ >> Renee: WE CONTINUE OUR DISCUSSION ABOUT ANTI-ASIAN VIOLENCE WITH CHINESE IMMIGRANT ARTIST, BUSINESSMAN AND COMMUNITY ACTIVIST AND ORGANIZER DAN WU OF LEXINGTON.

WE TALK ABOUT THE CONCEPT OF THE MODEL MINORITY.

WHITE SUPREMACY IN REALITY AND MORE.

THAT'S NOW ON CONNECTIONS.

>> Renee: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR CONNECTIONS TODAY.

I'M RENEE SHAW.

YOU MAY REMEMBER THAT A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO WE STARTED THE CONVERSATION ABOUT A SURGE IN VIOLENCE AGAINST ASIAN AMERICAN PACIFIC ISLANDER COMMUNITIES NATIONWIDE.

WE CONTINUE THAT DIALOGUE WITH DAN WU, A CULINARY WIZARD AND RESTAURATEUR WHO IS ALSO DEDICATED TO COMMUNITY, POLITICAL AND SOCIAL CAUSES THROUGH ACTIVISM.

IT'S A PLEASURE TO FINALLY MEET YOU.

>> GREAT TO BE HERE.

>> Renee: MANY PEOPLE MAY KNOW YOU AS THE OWNER OF THE ATOMIC RA MEN RAMEN AND HOW IS BUSINESS GOING?

>> OH MAN BUSINESS HAS BEEN A ROLLER COASTER AND ROLLER COASTER IN THE SENSE THAT YOU ARE COMING DOWN THE BEAST AT KINGS ISLAND AND YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW LONG THE DROP IS GOING TO BE.

>> AND THAT ANALOGY OF THE BEAST AT KINGS ISLAND, I DID THAT 20 YEARS AGO AND IT WAS 20 YEARS AGO I SAID WAS NEVER DOING IT AGAIN.

IF THAT'S WHAT IT FEELS LIKE, BLESS YOU.

>> THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY IS A TOUGH ONE TO BEGIN WITH THIS THIN MARGINS AND THE COVID PANDEMIC, IN A LOT OF RESPECTS HAVE SHOWN WHERE ALL THE FRACTURES AND ALL THE BREAKING POINTS OR IN OUR SOCIETY, THE ECONOMY AND THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY AND PUT IT IN FULL RELIEF THAT EVERYTHING IS TENUOUS, ALL IT TAKES IS ONE MORE LITTLE THING AND EVERYTHING GOES.

>> Renee: ARE YOU BACK TO SUSTAINABLE OPERATION CAPACITY IF.

>> I'M DOING OKAY, HONESTLY, THANKS TO A PARTNERSHIP WITH U.K., WE HAVE A STALL IN ONE OF THE DIEPING HALLS ON CAMPUS, BUT OUR RESTAURANT, OUR BRICK AND MORTAR RESTAURANT HAD TO CLOSE LAST SUMMER WITH THE RESTAURANTS AND SHOPS AND THE FOOD HALL AT THE SUMMIT.

>> Renee: HOPING THAT THE WILL REOPEN.

YOU ARE OPTIMISTIC, RIGHT?

>> WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS SO LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND, TOO, BECAUSE I'VE HEARD YOU IN OTHER INTERVIEWS AND YOU REALLY HAVE AN INTERESTING STORY NOT JUST BECAUSE OF YOUR IMMIGRATION JOURNEY BUT YOUR EVEN EXPLORATION OF ART AND BEING AN ART STUDIO MAJOR AND GOING TO SAN FRANCISCO AND NEW YORK AND THEN, YOU KNOW, COMING BACK TO KENTUCKY.

I JUST WANT TO HAVE YOU TAKE US THROUGH, IF YOU CAN, YOUR JOURNEY TO HOW YOU GOT TO BE RESTAURANTEUR.

>> I WANT TO SPEAK AT A HIGH SCHOOL COMMENCEMENT TO TELL THE KIDS TO JUST RELAX AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT BECAUSE LIFE IS SO CROOKED AND SO WEIRD AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE THE NEXT PATH TAKES YOU SO JUST TAKE IT EASY BECAUSE MY PATH HAS BEEN KIND OF CRAZY CROOKED.

I WAS BORN IN CHINA.

I CAME TO THE STATES WHEN I WAS EIGHT YEARS OLD WITH MY PARENTS.

WE FIRST LANDED IN FARGO, NORTH DAKOTA OF ALL PLACES.

AND THEN MY DAD GOT A JOB AS A RESEARCHER HERE AT U.K., BROUGHT US DOWN HERE.

A FEW YEARS LATER, THEY OPENED UP A SUBWAY SANDWICH SHOP, AS ONE DOES.

SO THEY WERE SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS.

I GOT TO SEE THAT FIRSTHAND AS A KID AND A TEENAGER.

WENT TO U.K.

FELT LEXINGTON WAS A LITTLE SMALL FOR ME COMING OUT OF SCHOOL, MOVED TO SAN FRANCISCO AND THEN TO NOSM.

LIVED IN BOTH PLACES FOR A COMBINED NINE YEARS, GOT MARRIED, HAD A KID, MOVED BACK TO LEXINGTON SO I HAVE LIVED IN LEXINGTON FOR THE MARKET OF MY LIFE BUT IN A ZIG ZAG PATH.

>> Renee: BUT YOU CAME BACK HOME.

YOU CONSIDER IT HOME.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Renee: BEING INTO CULINARY ARTS SEEMS TO BE A HEREDITARY CONDITION.

IS THAT TRUE OR FALSE?

>> PROBABLY IN A SUBCONSCIOUS DEEP LEVEL.

>> >> Renee: MAYBE JUST ENTREPRENEUR.

>> IT'S MORE THAT.

ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE YOU ARE GROWING UP, YOU DON'T WANT TO DO WHAT YOUR PARENTS ARE DOING AND YOU END UP DOING IT ANYWAY.

FOR ME, MY PATH WAS, AGAIN, CRKD CROOKED I APPLIED TO BE ON MASTER CHEF ON FOX ON A COMPLETE LARK.

GOT THROUGH THAT, CAME HOME AND USED THAT TO PARLEY MY WAY INTO PROFESSIONAL COOKING CAREER AND THE RESTAURANT THING CAME AT ME OUT OF NOWHERE AS WELL BUT MASTER STEPH SHEF, THAT HELP YOUR BUSINESS?

>> IT CREATED MY FOOD CAREER HONESTLY.

IT TOOK ME FROM AMATEUR AND KIND OF PUSHED ME UP A COUPLE OF STEPS FORWARD AND I KNEW LIKE COPPING OFF THAT SHOW, I WASN'T JUST WANTING TO BE ON TV FOR MY 15 MINUTES OF FAME.

I WANTED TO USE IT AS THE FOOT IN THE DOOR INTO THE PROFESSIONAL WORLD OF FOOD.

>> Renee: TELL US ABOUT DOING A REALITY TV COMPENSATION SHOW.

WHAT IS THAT LIKE?

>> IT'S CRAWZY I WAS THERE FOR EIGHT EPISODES TRANSLATING INTO FIVE WEEKS IN L.A.

THEY TOOK OUR PHONES AND DEVICES AWAY.

>> Renee: WHAT?

>> WE WERE ALLOWED ONE CALL HOME A WEEK.

>> THAT'S LIKE JAIL.

>> IT'S A COMBINATION OF JAIL, SUMMER CAMP AND THE TRUMAN SHOW AND IT WAS SURREAL.

THERE WAS NOTHING LIKE IT.

I WOULD NOT DO IT AGAIN.

>> Renee: REALLY?

>> BEEN THERE DONE THAT BUT WOULD I RECOMMEND ANYBODY WHO IS INTERESTED IN THAT STUFF FOR THE EXPERIENCE.

HOW MANY PEOPLE GET TO DO SOMETHING CRAZY LIKE THAT.

>> Renee: YOU HAVE TO BE GOOD ENOUGH TO BE ON EIGHT EPISODES.

YOU MAY HAVE BEEN AN AMATEUR, YOU WERE A DARNED GOOD AMATEUR.

>> WHAT IS INTERESTING IS YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER IT'S NOT A COOKING COMPETITION ON TV.

IT'S A TV SHOW THAT HAPPENS TO BE ABOUT COOKING.

SO MUCH OF IT IS HOW YOU FIT INTO THE NARRATIVE AND THE SCRIPT AND ALL THE CONFLICTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> Renee: IS IT AN ORGANIC EXPERIENCE OR IS IT REALLY HEAVILY SCRIPTED AND DIRECTED?

>> IT'S NOT SCRIPTED.

WHAT THEY WANT IS THEY WANT YOU TO TURN IT UP TO 10, WHOEVER YOU ARE, WHATEVER YOUR PERSONALITY IS, THEY WANT YOU TO AMP IT UP AND PUT IT OUT THERE.

WHAT THEY DO, THE BRILLIANCE OF THE SHOW IS THEY DO REALLY GREAT CASTING AND THEN PE THEY PUT PERSONALITIES TOGETHER INTO STRESSFUL SITUATIONS SO THEY'RE SCRIPTING YOU BUT IT'S NATURALLY GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW.

>> Renee: BUT THEY'RE ORGANIZING AND CREATING AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE THERE IS GOING TO BE NATURAL TENSION.

>> EXACTLY.

>> Renee: WHEN EVERYBODY IS AT FULL 10.

>> YEAH, AND IT'S MORE INTERESTING TO WATCH THAN JUST A BUNCH OF QUIET NICE FOLKS.

IT WASN'T THE BRITISH BAWBING SHOW.

THAT'S FOR SURE.

>> Renee: WHICH I LOVE THAT SHOW ON PBS BY THE WAY.

WE HAVE TO GIVE A SHOUT OUT.

DO YOU WAS MUCH THAT?

>> SOMETIMES.

AFTER MASTER CHEF, I HONESTLY, IT WAS VERY HARD FOR A FEW YEARS FOR ME TO WATCH ANY COMPETITION SHOW BECAUSE IT JUST GOT MY HEART RACING A LITTLE BIT.

GOT ME STRESSED OUT.

>> Renee: IS THAT RIGHT?

>> AND I GOT TO SEE BEHIND THE CURTAIN ALREADY SO I WAS LIKE I SEE HOW THEY'RE SHOOTING THIS.

>> Renee: YOU ARE ANALYZING INSTEAD OF BEING ENTERTAINED.

THAT MAKES IT DIFFERENT.

I'M GOING TO TAKE A HARD PIVOT NOW TO TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE REALLY POETICALLY, I THINK, FRAMED FOR THE READERS OF THE LEXINGTON "HERALD-LEADER" WHEN YOU DID A MARCH 18 OP-ED TALKING ABOUT AND THE HEADLINE WAS AMERICANS LOVE ASIAN CULTURE AND CONTRIBUTION BUT DO NOT VALUE OUR LIVES.

I THINK AFRICAN-AMERICANS HAVE SAID THE SAME.

YOU CO-OPT THE CULTURE AND MISAPPROPRIATION OF CULTURE BUT WHEN IT COMES TO TRUE VALUE OF LIVES AND THE SITUATIONS OF LIFE AND DEATH, THERE IS SIGH-- SILENCE.

TELL US MORE ABOUT HOW YOU ARE FEELING AT THIS MOMENT WHEN WE KNOW THAT ASIAN AMERICAN VIOLENCE AGAINST ASIAN AMERICANS IS ON THE RISE I THINK WHEN WE DID THIS SHOW A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, 3800 REPORTED CASES IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME AND WE KNOW AS COOPERATIVE STATED THAT IS NOT TALKING ABOUT ALL OF THE CASES BECAUSE MANY GO UNREPORTED OR UNDERREPORTED.

>> HOW AIM FEELING?

I'M FEELING A LOT.

I'M FEELING EVERYTHING ALL AT ONCE.

IT BROOT ME BACK TO ONESTLY IN THE EARLY DAYS THE PANDEMIC, I REMEMBER FEELING THIS UNNEAMABLE ANXIETY OF JUST HAVING YOUR FEELINGS KIND OF RIGHT UP HERE AND ANY LITTLE STUPID THING WOULD TRIGGER YOU INTO BEING MAD OR CRYING OR WHATEVER.

I FELT THAT AGAIN AFTER THE MURDERS IN ATLANTA TO WHERE I JUST COULDN'T FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO WITH THE FEELINGS AND FOR ME, I JUST THREW IT INTO THAT OP-ED.

I THREW MY THOUGHTS INTO IT.

WHAT IT DID FOR ME HONESTLY, IT DID A COUPLE OF THINGS FOR ME AS MUCH AS I WAS INVOLVED AND WANTING TO WORK IN ALLYSHIP ALL OF LAST YEAR WITH THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT AND ALL OF THOSE HORRIBLE SITUATIONS, I REALIZED WHAT I THOUGHT WAS EMPATHY WAS ACTUALLY SYMPATHY AND IT TOOK SEEING VICTIMS WHOSE NAMES SOUNDED LIKE MINE AND WHOSE FACES LOOK LIKE MY MOTHER'S AND WHOSE STORIES WERE MY STOAR AND MY PARENTS STORY.

LIKE THESE ARE SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS.

THESE ARE PEOPLE PROVIDING FOR THEIR KIDS.

IT HIT HOME IN A WAY THAT IT NEVER HAD BEFORE.

AND I HATE ALMOST THAT IT HAD TO TAKE THAT FOR ME TO GET TO THAT NEXT LEVEL OF FEELING LIKE OH THIS IS WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO BE TARGETED.

ING TO TO BE HUNTED, TO BE, YOU KNOW, VICTIMIZED IN THIS WAY BECAUSE ASIAN AMERICANS HAVE SUFFERED FROM RACISM AND DISCRIMINATION FROM THE DA I WE SET FOOT IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT OUR HISTORIES HAVE BEEN VERY DIFFERENT THAN AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

IT DOESN'T MAKE IT BETTER OR WORSE.

THAT'S THE OTHER THING I HAD TO COME TO WAS IS THAT THIS IS NOT THE OPPRESSION OLYMPICS AND THAT'S ONE OF THE GREAT WEAPONS OF WHITE SUPREMACY IS THAT THEY CREATE A CARES AT THIS, RIGHT IN ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY AND IN JUSTICE.

IT STUMS FEEL LIKE IF YOU GIVE ENOUGH ATTENTION OR JUSTICE TO BLACK FOLKS, THERE IS NOT ENOUGH FOR ME SO I NEED TO HOORD MINE AND THEN, YOU KNOW, SUDDEN SUDDENLY WE ARE AT ODDS WHEN IN FACT WE ARE VICTIMS OF THE SAME SYSTEM SO IT BROUGHT ALL THESE THOUGHTS TO A HEAD FOR ME.

>> Renee: OPPRESSION OLYMPICS.

THAT'S A LEXICON THAT I THINK WILL WE HEAR MORE OF I JUST WANT TO READ THIS EXERT BECAUSE IT WAS A POIGNANT PART OF THE PIECE YOU WROTE.

YOU SAID ASIAN AMERICANS HAVE BEEN SEEN AS THE MODEL MINORITY FOR THE PAST 40 PLUS YEARS.

WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE SMART, HARD WORKING, QUIET, SUBSERVIENT AND NOT MAKE WAVES.

MANY OF US TOOK THAT LABEL TO HEART, KEPT OUR HEADS DOWN, PURSUED AMERICAN DREAMS, ESCAPING NOTICE AS THE POLITICS OF RACE IN AMERICA FRAMED IN TERMS OF WHITE AND BLACK.

FOR MANY OF US WE ADOPTED THE TRAPPINGS OF WHITENESS AS WE SLIPPED THROUGH THE CRACKS OF A RACIST SITE BUT SAFETY IS AN ILLUSION.

THIS IS THE ULTIMATE GENIUS OF WHITE SUPREMACY, THE ABILITY TO PROVIDE MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES AGAINST EACH OTHER THAT SAYS IT ALL.

YOU CAN DROP THE MIC AND GO HOME AND I THINK THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF MODEL MINORITY THAT THE STATE REPRESENTATIVE FIRST TALKED ABOUT US ABOUT A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, I DIDN'T PICK UP ON IT AS MUCH WHEN I REREAD YOUR PIECE, I THOUGHT I MISSED AN OPPORTUNITY TO DIVE DEEP NEAR THAT.

I WANT TO GET THE SENSE BECAUSE I THINK SOME AFRICAN-AMERICANS MAY SAY, WELL, AT LEAST THEY'RE NOT PICKING ON US NOW AT LEAST IT'S SOMEBODY ELSE'S TURN.

HERE IS ANOTHER LEG IN THE OPPRESSION OLYMPICS AND IT'S NOT US YOU WOULD SAY WHAT TO THAT.

>> I'D SAY THE SYSTEM IS WORKING EXACTLY AS DESIGNED THAT IF YOU ARE SAYING THOSE KINDS OF THINGS AND THINKING THOSE THOUGHTS, SYSTEMIC RACISM IS WORKING JUST FINE YEAH, TO SEE IT IN TERMS OF HAVING TURNS IS A HORRIBLE THOUGHT FOR A LOCK TIME, AND HONESTLY, THE MODEL MINORITY MYTH HAS ONLY BEEN AROUND SINCE THE 60s AND POPULARIZED IN THE 80s AND THE 60s, WHY?

BECAUSE IN 1965, THE IMMIGRATION LAWS CHANGED AND OPENED IT WIDER TO IMMIGRATION SO MOST OF THE ASIAN AMERICANISM GRANTS IN THIS COUNTRY CAME POST 1965.

BETWEEN 1882 AND 1965, THERE WERE ALMOST NONE.

ALMOST NO ASIANS CAME TO THIS COUNTRY.

SO WE CAME AND, YOU KNOW, YOU TAKE THE COMBINATION OF A LOT OF ASIAN AND EAST ASIAN CULTURES COME FROM CONFEW SHANNISM AND BUDDHISM, THERE IS OBEYANCE TO AUTHORITY, TO ELDERS AND WHEN YT SPEAK THE LANGUAGE, OF COURSE YOU ARE QUIETER.

WE WERE GIVEN THIS ROLE AND TO ME, THE LANE IS UNCONDITIONAL WHITENESS THAT YOU CAN GET THE BENEFITS AND PRIVILEGES AND TRAPPINGS OF WHITENESS IF YOU STAY DOWN YOU STAY QUIET, YOU STAY IN YOUR LANE, TOO.

YOU CAN BE SMART AND SUCCESSFUL BUT IN WHAT?

IN SCIENCES, IN MEDICINE, RIGHT IN MATH, NOT NECESSARILY IN ENTERTAINMENT, NOT NECESSARILY IN SPORTS, BUT WHAT KIND OF BUSINESSES.

THINK ABOUT THE ASIAN OWNED BUSINESSES WE KNOW HERE, I DID AN INFORM AL SURVEY AND IT WAS 90% FOOD AND 10% BEAUTY AND BODY SERVICES.

AND FOR ME, LIKE IN THE YEAR 2021, IN LEXINGTON KENTUCKY, MID SIZED CITY WITH 300,000 PLUS PEOPLE, WHERE ARE THE ASIAN OWNED DENTAL OFFICES, THE ASIAN OWNED GYM, THE OCEAN OWNED PLUMBING COMPANY?

SO WHERE STILL IN OUR LANES WHERE WE ARE ALLOWED TO SUCCEED.

SO WE DON'T HAVE THAT SORT OF LIKE REAL AWE TON MY TO-- AUTONOMY TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE NARRATIVE.

>> Renee: I WONDER HOW MUCH MEDIA REPRESENTATION MATTERS.

I HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH SOMEONE ELSE EARLIER THIS WEEK ABOUT HOW, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW ANY ASIAN AMERICANS THAT ARE ON AIR IN THE LEXINGTON LOUISVILLE MARKET DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE NOT THERE BUT I BELIEVE THAT MERTS MATTERS IN THE CONVERSATION YOU HAVE AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT MEDIA DEPRICKSES OR AND TAKE IT A STEP BACK, YOU KNOW, I WAS THINKING ABOUT BECAUSE IT WAS BROUGHT UP BY REPRESENTATIVE KULKARNI THAT SHE REALLY LAID BLAME SQUARELY AT THE FEET OF THE 45th PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES FOR THE RHETORIC THAT WAS USED IN DESCRIBING THE CORONAVIRUS AS THE CHYNA FLU AND YOU NAME ALL THE EUPHEMISMS.

DID YOU EVER EXPERIENCE, DURING THAT TIME WHEN THAT RHETORIC WAS USED, DID YOU EXPERIENCE BLATANT OROVERT STEALTH RACISM DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME?

AND DO YOU BLAME THE 45th PRESIDENT FOR WHERE WE ARE NOW?

>> HE IS NOT CAUSE OF ANY OF THE PROBLEMS.

YOU SAW THE ROACHES.

THE ROACHES HAVE BEEN THERE BUT THEY HAVE BEEN IN THE DARKNESS AND WE FINALLY HAVE SHONE A LIGHT ON IT IS WHAT IT IS AND HE IS FINALLY GIVEN PERMISSION FOR PEOPLE TO SAY OUTLOUD THE THINGS THAT THEY WERE THINKING IN THEIR HEADS.

, DAY ONE, HE CONTRIBUTED TO IT BUT IT WAS NOT A A NEW PROBLEM, NOT A PROBLEM THAT STARTED IN 2020 AND NOT IN 2016.

SO I THINK WE HAVE TO KIND OF CONTEXTUALIZE THAT.

>> Renee: AS FAR AS YOUR OWN EXPERIENCES,.

>> I'LL SAY THIS MUCH.

AND THIS IS KIND OF THE TROUBLE SOMETIMES WHEN ONE PERSON TRIES TO REPRESENT A WHOLE BIG GROUP OF PEOPLE.

YOU THINK ABOUT ASIAN AMERICANS, I MEAN ASIA IS THE BIGGEST CONTINENT ON THE PLANET.

WE REPRESENT SO MANY DIFFERENT CULTURES AND LANGUAGES AND WE HAVE DIFFERENT IMMIGRATION STORIES.

MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE COMING FROM AN ACADEMIC PROFESSIONAL WHO BROUGHT ME HERE, I'M DOCUMENTED, I'M EDUCATED, I'M MALE, I'M STRAIGHT.

YOU KNOW, I HAVE ALL OF THE-- >> Renee: CHECKED OFF THE BOXES.

>> ADVANTAGES.

MY LIFE IS NOT THE SAME LIFE AS DALIA FUNG FROM ATLANTA WHO NO ONE HAS COME OUT TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT HER AND SHE HAS NO KNOWN ADDRESS.

MY EXPERIENCE IS A WORLD AWAY FROM HER EXPERIENCE.

SO DID I FACE THIS KIND OF STUFF PERSONAL WILL I IN THE PAST YEAR OR IN RECENT YEARS?

TO SOME DEGREE, I GET USED TO IT BECAUSE IT'S LIKE THE MICROAGGRESSIONS AND IT'S ALL THESE WEIRD LIKE POSITIVE MICROAGGRESSIONS LIKE YOU SPEAK ENGLISH REALLY WELL.

LIKE YEAH, YOU ARE DAMN RIGHT, I HAVE BEEN HERE SINCE I WAS A KID.

OF COURSE.

YEAH, SO IT'S THOSE SORT OF THINGS AND IN A WAY, I KIND OF BOUGHT INTO THE OPPRESSION OLYMPICS FOR A BIT, TOO, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, I WOULD SEE THESE STATS ABOUT THE INCREASING VIOLENCE AGAINST ASIANS BUT THEY WERE ALWAYS JUST SORT OF ONE OFF, SINGULAR, HERE IS AN ATTACK, AN INSULT, SOMEBODY WHO GOT BEAT UP AND IN MY MIND WAS ALWAYS LIKE, WELL, WE HAVEN'T HAD AS BAD AS BLACK FOLKS.

LOOK AT THE NEWS.

LOOK AT WHAT ELSE IS HAPPENING.

I FEEL STUPID COMPLAINING THAT WE ARE BEING OPPRESS WHEN OTHER PEOPLE ARE BEING KILLED ON THE STREET FOR NO REASON.

AND I THINK IT TOOK ME THIS EVENT AND IT TOOK ME SOME SOUL SEARCHING TO KIND OF TAKE THAT, TO REFRAME IT.

>> Renee: THAT'S RIGHT.

BUT THAT'S A FALSE COMPARISON, RIGHT?

THAT WE DON'T NEED TO MEASURE PEOPLE'S PAIN BASED ON DEATH RATES, MURDER RATES, ET CETERA, THAT IT'S NOT OPPRESSION OLYMPICS.

YOU KNOW, YOU ARE GOING TO BE SPEAKING TO A GROUP AND DOING THIS 30, 40 MINUTE TALK AND I'M CURIOUS BECAUSE I'M GOING TO LOG ON TO IT NEXT WEEK ON WEDNESDAY.

THE 14th AND I'M CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT YOU WILL TELL THE AUDIENCE.

WHEN YOU SPEAK TO PREDOMINANTLY WHITE AUDIENCES, IS YOUR MESSAGE THE SAME?

AND HOW DO YOU FRAME IT WHERE THEY-- YOU PUT THE JAM ON THE LOWER SHELF AS THE SOUTHERNERS SAY, RIGHT?

>> I WOULD SAY MY MESSAGE IS DIFFERENT IF I'M TALKING TO A WHITE AUDIENCE OR A MORE ASIAN AUDIENCE.

FOR THE MORE ASIAN AUDIENCE, HONESTLY I WANT TO KEEP BREAKING DOWN THE MODEL MINORITY MYTH BECAUSE A LOT OF RESPONSE FROM MY COMMUNITY AFTER THESE EVENTS HAD THIS ELEMENT OF LIKE WHY ARE YOU KILLING US, LIKE WE WORK HARD, WE RAISE OUR KIDS WE DO THIS THING AND LISTEN TO THOSE WORDS.

WHEN YOU SAY WE WORK HARD OR WE STUDY HARD OR WE RAISE OUR KIDS WHAT IS THE IMPLICATION THAT THIS OTHER GROUP DOES NOT.

SO THEY'RE IMMEDIATELY PUTTING THEMSELVES HERE AND IT'S ALSO SOMEHOW WE HAVE TO EARN OUR HUMANITY THROUGH OUR CONTRIBUTIONS OR OUR LABOR OR SUBSERVEIENS WHEN HUMANITY IS SOMETHING THAT WE OWN.

NO ONE CAN GIVE IT AND NO ONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TAKE IT.

SO EVEN IN RESPONSE TO THE TRAGEDY, MANY ASIAN AMERICANS ARE STILL THINKING OF IT IN THOSE KINDS OF TERMS I WANT TO BREAKTHROUGH THE MODEL MINORITY MIDST AND BREAKTHROUGH IT IN THE SENSE OF WE DIDN'T COME UP WITH THIS, Y'ALL THIS WAS FOISTED UPON US AND HERE IS THE EFFECT IT IS HAVING ON US.

WE THOUGHT WOULD IT GUARANTEE OUR SAFETY AND IT DOES NOT AND IT WILL NOT.

>> Renee: FOR THOSE WHO, BECAUSE I'VE TALKED TO MANY WHO WILL SAY, YOU KNOW, I REALLY AM NOT COMFORTABLE SPEAKING OUT ABOUT THIS.

I'M CONCERNED ABOUT YOU KNOW RESISTANCE OR RETRIBUTION THAT IT WOULD MAKE MY LIVELIHOOD SUFFER OR EVEN MY WHOLE EXISTENCE IN BEING.

AND THAT EXPLAINS WHY THIS KIND OF VIOLENCE GOES UNREPORTED OR UNDERREPORTED, RIGHT?

FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT QUITE WHERE YOU ARE, BECAUSE I'M GOING TO DO A SHOW ABOUT, I'M GOING SAY IT BECAUSE I THINK ONCE YOU SPEAK IT INTO EXISTENCE, IT HAS GOT TO HAPPEN BUT I REALLY THINK WE HAVE GOT TO SEE EACH OTHER AND IT'S LIKE, I WANT TO MEET YOU, I WANT TO BE WHERE YOU ARE, LIKE TAKE ME WHERE YOU ARE.

I WANT TO GO THERE AND MEET YOU RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE RIGHT NOW.

AND FOR THOSE WHO, IN THE ASIAN COMMUNITY WHO FEEL LIKE, OKAY, LET'S JUST MOVE ON, STOP TALKING ABOUT IT, WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THEM?

>> I SAY WE CAN'T.

ALL THE TRAPPINGS OF THE MODEL MINORITY AND THE CONDITIONAL WHITENESS AND THE KEEP OUR HEADS DOWN, IT DOESN'T PROTECT US YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

OR IT DOES UNTIL IT DOESN'T.

LIKE WE STILL DON'T OWN IT.

WE WE DON'T OWN OUR OWN HUMANITY AND OUR OWN SAFETY.

SO THE IDEA THAT LIKE IF I DON'T DO ANYTHING, I'LL STAY SAFE, THOSE PEOPLE THAT WERE KILLED, THEY WEREN'T DOING ANYTHING.

THEY WEREN'T PROVOKING ANYONE.

THEY WEREN'T, YOU KNOW, CAUSING IT AND YOU GET INTO VICTIM BLAMING, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU START THINKING IN THOSE TERMS, TOO.

IF I SPEAK UP, THEN I WILL BE SQUASHED DOWN.

SO YOU PER PERPETUATE THE SYSTEM AND ULTIMATELY IT ALSO MEANS YOU DON'T COME OUT FOR OTHER FOLKS, LIKE OUR HISTORY SADLY HAS BEEN AND THERE ARE OBVIOUSLY EXCEPTIONS BUT OUR HISTORY AT LARGE FOR ME IN MY MIND HAS BEEN THAT WHEN OTHER GROUPS ARE BEING OPPRESS, WE ARE LIKE THAT'S NOT US, RIGHT.

LIKE I'M GOING TO STAY OVER HERE AND HOPE THEY DON'T NOTICE ME NEXT AND.

>> Renee: THE OTHER PART OF THAT, TOO, I WANT TO GET YOUR OPINION BECAUSE THE SITUATION WITH THE ATLANTA AREA MURDERS WHERE YOU HAD, THERE WAS SOME PERCEPTION THAT THESE WOMEN WERE TRAFFICKING IN THE SEX TRADE.

SO YOU HAVE MISOGYNY AND SEXISM AND RACISM AND IT ALL CONVERGES.

AND IT BRINGS IN A CONVERSATION ABOUT MASCULINITY IS, RIGHT?

SO AS A MAN WHO WATCHED THAT, KNOWING THAT THAT COULD HAVE BEEN YOUR MOTHER, YOUR SISTER, YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU HAVE THAT KIND OF CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT ASIANS ARE NOT?

>> THE ASIAN WOMAN IN THE HISTORY OF AMERICA HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN OBJECT OF FETISH, OBJECT OF DESIRE AND ALSO A BLAMED AS A SEA DUCK SEA DEDUCT HOO-- SEA DEDUCTION, THE NARRATIVE HAS BEEN THERE SINCE DAY ONE.

THE CHINESE COLLUSION ACT WAS TARGETED TO CHINESE WOMEN WHO WERE ONLY SEEN AS SEX WORKERS AND PROSTITUTES SO THEY'RE LIKE WE NEED TO KEEP THIS MORAL BLIGHT OUT OF OUR COUNTRY AND THEN YOU ADD ON TOP OF THAT, AMERICA'S COLONIAL HISTORY IN THE PACIFIC ISLANDS AND THE LAST THREE MAJOR WARS WE FOUGHT WERE AGAINST YOU KNOW, JAPAN, KOREA AND SWRN VIETNAM.

THINK ABOUT THAT HISTORY AND THINK ABOUT THE REALITIES OF AMERICAN SERVICE MEN IN THOSE COUNTRIES AND THE WOMEN THAT THEY ENCOUNTERED AND LEFT HIN AND THE CHILDREN THAT THEY ENCOUNTERED AND LEFT BEHIND WHICH, IN TURN, LIKE LED TO A WHOLE WAVE OF ASIAN ADOPTIONS SO WE COULD DO ANOTHER HOUR ABOUT A LOT OF THE IDENTITIES THAT THE GET, YOU KNOW, COMING HERE BEING ADOPTED.

I READ AN ARTICLE ABOUT, ACTUALLY IT WAS A PODCAST ABOUT THIS KOREAN AMERICAN WOMAN ADOPTED BY WHITE PARENTS AND WHEN ATLANTA HAPPENED, SHE FELT SO ISOLATED DESPITE THE BEST INTENTIONS OF HER WHITE PARENTS, SHE FELT SO DISCONNECTED, SHE KIND OF HAD A RECKONING WITH THE FACT THAT LIKE HOW DISCONNECTED SHE WAS WITH HER OWN BACKGROUND AND CULTURE AND DIDN'T HAVE COMMUNITY AND ALL OF HER FRIENDS WERE WHITE.

SO IT'S JUST LIKE, YOU GO ALL THE WAY BACK IN THE HISTORY, AND THE ACCOMPANIYING SORT OF SEXUALIZATION AND FETISHIZATION OF THE ASIAN WOMAN WHEN HAND IN HAND WITH THEY MASS CLAITION OF THE ASIAN MAN FROM DAY ONE.

SO WHEN YOU JUST NOW SEE STEVEN YOUNG ON THE COVER OF A MAGAZINE WITH HIS SHIRT OPEN, IT'S REVOLUTIONARY IN 2021 TO SEE AN ASIAN MAN AS A SEX OBJECT BUT IT HAS TAKEN US THIS LONG.

>> Renee: THE CHINESE ADOPTION, I REALLY DO THINK THAT IS SOMETHING WORTH DIVING INTO AND SO MAYBE WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT SOME OTHER TIME.

I'M CURIOUS ABOUT, I ALWAYS LIKE TO ASK THIS QUESTION WHEN WE HAVE PROGRAMS LIKE THIS, WHEN WE , MAYBE TALK ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE TRAGIC OR DO YOU REMEMBER, YOU KNOW, HOW OPTIMISTIC OR HOPEFUL ARE YOU ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING IN THE COMMUNITY AND WHAT OTHERS CAN DO TO TURN ALL OF THIS AROUND?

>> I HAVE TO BE OPTIMISTIC.

I HAVE TO BE HOPEFUL OTHERWISE, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW I WAKE UP IN THE MORNING.

WHAT I'M HOPING IS BETWEEN THE STUFF THAT HAPPENED LAST SUMMER, WHICH FELT LIKE A KIND OF A WAKENING FOR BLACK LIVES MATTER, INTO SORT OF A WIDER AUDIENCE, RIGHT, AND WHAT HAPPENED IN ATLANTA, I WANT PEOPLE TO WAKE UP AND REALIZE THAT THESE ARE INTERCONNECTED THINGS AND THE ONLY WAY WE DEFEAT THIS INTERCONNECTED SYSTEM IS TO INTERCONNECT OURSELVES AND ALL THESE MOSSMENTSZ AND ALL THESE GROUPS AND SHOW UP FOR EACH OTHER.

>> Renee: AND CALL OUT WHITE SUPREMACY FOR WHAT IT IS.

A POINT WE DIDN'T MAKE AS MUCH AS I THOUGHT.

>> EXACTLY RIGHT.

>> IF WE LINKED HANDS AND ANY TIME UP WITH OF US IS PERSECUTED OR HURT, WE SHOW UP FOR EACH OTHER, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT THEIR FACE LOOKS LIKE US OR THEIR NAME SOUNDS LIKE US.

RIGHT WE SHOW UP FOR EACH OTHER.

>> Renee: THOSE ARE GOOD WORDS TO END ON.

DAN WU.

THANK YOU.

I HOPE TO HAVE YOU BACK BECAUSE I THINK THERE IS SO MUCH MORE TO DISCUSS AND MAYBE WE CAN BRING BACK EVERYBODY.

WE'LL HAVE TO HAVE AN HOUR AND A HALF CONVERSATION FOR THAT.

GOOD LUCK TO YOU AND ALL THAT YOU ARE DOING AND THANK YOU FOR BEING ON THE FRONT LINES AND REALLY MAKING YOUR VOICE HEARD AND IT'S GOING TO ENABLE OTHERS TO COME FORWARD, TOO.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING CONNECTIONS TODAY.

I'M RENEE SHAW.

YOU CAN ALWAYS KEEP IN TOUCH WITH US ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER.

WATCH PREVIOUS SHOWS AT ket.org/CONNECTIONS.

LISTEN TO OUR PODCAST AT ket.org/PODCAST.

THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR